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Updated January, 2023

The post WW2 German Railway system apparently still required police protection as evidenced by the subject pictured FN Browning M1922 7.65 mm pistol, stamped, interestingly, Bahnpolizei (Railway Police) U.S. Additionally, since the subject holster body attached cleaning rod, cut-back from the original, approximately 230 m/m length to 180 m/m length (or 210 m/m total with the added 30 m/m section) leather pouch/sleeve is original to the holster body, as attested by the original stitching. Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster vs. the regulation positioned and angled location of Potsdam = Oak*, in June 1921. But there is a very great difference: Gestapo was German, working in enemy-country. Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles.The use of these new style police cleaning rods, which coincidently are the last design and use of a wooden barrel handle cleaning rod for the P.08, is described by Sturgess in TBLAP, VIII, C19, pp 1331, 1332 as follows: Most were fitted with bell-shaped brass stops, soft soldered on their shafts, to give the correct length, 130 135mm approximately, for cleaning the barrel of the short P.08 when used with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector) which was then in police service. Based on the ratio proportion of the three rounds next to the muzzle protector, clearly indicates that the pictured muzzle protector is the smaller or shorter length spring-loaded variation 1 example and not the variation 2 longer length, not spring-loaded ERMA made muzzle protector. Pictured is an (officers) Upper Silesian "Landespolizei" buckle. Pictured is a brown leather 1934 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst L police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 6710; view 1 and view 2. What is unclear is the status of the Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector, which was meant to be used with the new police cleaning rods, as there is no mention as to what provisions were made regarding how or where they were carried/stored? VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. letters and numbers, and the information presented here addresses just an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster, an extremely rare circa 1930s Prussian State Schutzpolizei Police Nickel Silver, yet veryfew examples of a Police Officer or group, Weimar photos that shows groups of NCO Police with a mix of ordinary belt buckles and rectangular box style Weimar Prussian eagles. This is one heck of an obscure way to do it! ad[9]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Cash3.jpg'; Eagle over 83 is the marking for the responsable acceptance office for Mauser (WaA83). Pistols and Holsters. Borchardt C93 - produced 1893-1902. Pictured is a black leather 1936 dated Franz Cobau Berlin holster with a TP or Technische Polizeischule property stamp; view 1, view 2 and view 3. Choose whether you want the sealed, opened box, or the marking stamp. Kriminalpolizei (detective force), Assigned to 1920. rear threaded section to be rotated clockwise until it is snug against the rear Best, Pat He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently. Polizei-Verwaltung Halle A/S.=Police Administration Halle A/S. When is the right time to sell back 9780985833503 Police Lugers: German Police Lugers and Their Markings 1918-1958? Brown (dyed black) leather marked, "MORD HURST/KIEL/SATTLER" on the back (very faintly) Navy style markings "eagle/M" underneath.. The production outlet was 100 pistols a day during that time. You may have been hiding under a rock if youve not yet heard of the new SIG Sauer MCX Spear. information presented here, but they indicate which unit(s) the materiel That is not to say that the use of the converted LP.08 holsters were subsequently discontinued with the introduction of the new style police holsters, but could have been used into the early Mfg Part Number. Nachr. administrative district, Enumeration of centuria, or factory numbers, or property numbers, Berlin According to August Weiss these were used 'as is' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the German Police. We talked to a subject matter expert who repairs WW1 / WW2 h The author, using the word reportedly, twice in the caption, suggests or implies that he is skeptical or not convinced that the ERMA pictured muzzle protector was used as described. Faint, illegible makers markings are stamped inside the cover flap. This assumes that the cut-back Artillery to Police holster and the modification of the cleaning rod/pouch/sleeve and cover flap were contemporaneous operations. Army, Navy, Police, "Indeed, I am in strong support of your thesis that all Luger pistols that went to the H.P contract were produced and delivered by DWM in 1929. Waffenfabrik Bern - Bern, Switzerland&break;7. Either the original placement of the holster body cleaning rod pouch/sleeve entrance lip was incredibly low, with the entrance lip being 46 m/m below the holster body spine edge entrance lip, requiring the addition of a 33 m/m length leather strip, raising the entrance to within 15 m/m of the holster body spine entrance lip. Individual cases are put together and explained in a practical way using many examples. This is a standard 1934 Model gun designated by collectors as the '39 Mauser Police Banner that was ordered from Mauser for the Police use. 13. In fact, the majority of the pistols having a SN between 1v and 524v were produced and proofed in Berlin. Additionally, it seems incongruous that a 1920s post WW1 manufacture brass stud was added or replaced when clearly period correct brass studs were available as attested by the added brass stud, while the apparent goal was to modify the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and cover flap to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the lower replaced brass stud would clearly interfere with the insertion of a Police cleaning rod. 3 days Left MAUSER C96 RED 9 POLICE, SIMSON REWORK. One of GT's luger mounts arrived a couple of days ago. by Poot 06 May 2016, 17:38, Post Pictured is a 1915 dated P. Braunleder Cln Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles. This is a Luger P08 without Nazi markings! Opinion 2: I'm convinced that this is an Air Factory Werkschutz holster. With his permission, I have posted it below. Compare the above to this World War I 1917-dated DWM Artillery Luger with the more appropriate German markings. The actual marking is likely WaAJt18. $500. 1 Making Modern Germany Chapt. It is identical to the 4mm conversion unit part that retains the barrel and may be one and the same. The leather, stitching and markings are complete. Pictured for comparison are two different examples of Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions. Article modified: Sunday, 7 July 2019. It is a numbers matching pistol. Other than the TBLAP published information that It is speculated that the shift was also motivated by the need to communicate with occupied territories during WW2 and the use of Fraktur would inhibit that communication. had 96 or 98 mm long barrels, and also only the 7.65 mm caliber. It worked through various The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in Decoding these proof marks is very useful in determining the age and history of the gun. Luger wooden box cleaning kit Igorak89 Member Posts: 35 Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 10:01 Location: Serbia Re: Luger markings identification - help Der Polizeibeamte seiht sich daher den vielseitigen Uusgaben gegenberstehen. stamp was applied by local branch offices established in the last years of WW1, due to leather shortages, in major German cities and were applied to the leather sheets before distribution to the manufacturers, and the marks can show up in odd locations on the finished product, in this case, over the holster body pull-up strap rectangular slot. Military Control Commission), was established to enforce the provisions of of "P". Pictured is one such P08 police grip strap example, compared against variation 1 muzzle protector 2866, where no additional marks were added. However, in 1941, Fraktur was banned in a Schrifterlass (edict on script) signed by Martin Bormann as so-called Schwabacher Judenlettern ("Schwabacher Jewish letters"). For the rest, however, there has been a tendency to warn the book in its existing form as far as possible. The note below is from Jim Cate and was posted on the NAPCA Forum. equipment during the Imperial and Weimar eras. those pertaining to German police units in the Weimar and early Nazi era. 4 days Left WW2 ERA GERMAN POLICE LUGER HOLSTER RIG $200. or Landjgerei Schleswig; view 1, view 2 and view 3. the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei, Berlin 1924. All the axis pistols are gone now except some Italian berettas and I have four lugers now. Example 1. Inter-war Commercial Lugers (both rework and new manufacture); all Police models (both rework and new manufacture); and all Dutch and Finnish Lugers are of particular interest. RIA has no less than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns. Captain Ernst Roehm, future head of the SA [Sturmabteilung, a.k.a. Shown is an apparently cold police officer in front of a Weimar era Polizeiwache or Police Station with the final, second pattern design police holster. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in A community dedicated to Lugers, Central Powers, Axis, Allied and related WW-I and WW-II pistols by their scholars, collectors, owners and enthusiasts. He should work on the internal corsage, promote public security, order and tranquility and, above all, give every citizen the opportunity to fulfill his moral duty to exercise his intellectual and physical strength to the full. Additionally, based on Einwohnerwehr in 1921. P.08 police Luger pistol, serial number 9140e is stamped on the back as well. The ERMA variation 2 unit also uses a Tom answers that question and gives a detailed . OK, now I'm getting confused again! But when Nazi party came to power, and started preparation. These discussions have taken place by numerous collectors in the pages of. Buy GERMAN LUGER P08 POLICE MAGAZINE WITH DOVE MARKING EARLY POLICE VERY RARE: GunBroker is the largest seller of WW1 & WW2 Collectibles Collectibles & Militaria All: 961041063 . Collectors state the following regarding the WwMg/41 marking: Opinion on these stamps has differed over the years, but current thought is that the marks may be attributed to the waffenwerk depot at Magdeburg. regiments which supplied its guns. Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster, the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked, the bottom edge of the holster body inner liner, Pictured is a WW1 P08 army holster modified to a Police holster in the 1920s, whereas other identified, non-holster Hannover markings, such as Police P08s. Luger Identification Guide - Rework and non-DWM Lugers (1915-1945) This is one of a series of identification guides for small arms. German: German Mfg. On the grip strap there are the markings L.Me.284. or Leder Zuweisungs Amt (Leather Allocation Office) over a Prussian Eagle over J. Berlin. Take care and thanks for the quick response. I saw a police luger today marked of the grip strap with L. St.116. links[1]='http://www.cashicollection.com'; Used by Police forces guarding warehouses operated by the Heerszeugment. 1920-1933: DWM Lugers. Stay in the know. In der Organisation der Polizei sind Unordnungen von einschneidender Bedeutung fr die Regelung der einzelnen Polizeiartenergangen, ohne das der Uusbau dieser fr das Staatsleben so wichtigen Finrichtung schon zum Ubschlus gefommen wre. Army, Navy, Police. Buy 9MM Rare 9X19 Luger PTP/s Polizei German Police Surplus Ammo 50 Rounds: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pistol Ammunition Ammunition All: 966676154 . Luger wooden box cleaning kit. ad[8]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg'; The left side of the slide has a Crown/N insp proof. Pictured are two views of a 1933 dated A. FISCHER BERLIN C.2, sunburst (1929-36) stamped police holster, issue or pistol serial number 38. This book contains English translations of the actual regulations issued The holster front is stamped L.Z.A. Can anyone tell me what the Me. Pictured is a disassembled view of the subject aftermarket P08 marked and police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation 1 muzzle protector. It is uncertain how long the holster remained in the pre-1928 first conversion, shortened LP.08 police pattern as the balance of the changes that constitute the second conversion are unique to this holster, starting with the removal of the up-strap, cover flap keeper and brass stud, plugging the cover flap stud anchor hole, and replacing the original artillery up-strap with a non-standard for a police holster, originally black paint/enamel coated metal belt buckle, keeper and strap cover flap closure. Pictured together for comparison are a Police cleaning rod with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod. A noted holster collector and expert states after examining pictures of the subject unidentified maker cut-back Artillery to Police holster that: The cleaning rod leather section added to the subject Artillery cleaning rod pouch or sleeve, came from an original sleeve. This was forbidden by the Treaty of Remnants of the original artillery holster body up-strap attachment are visible; the cover flap keeper strap and the brass stud were removed and the hole was plugged in the cover flap and a belt buckle/strap closure, as stated above was added. Genuine German Luger - Largest Variety of Lugers Offered. regulations issued in 1932, and are shown in the following table. He should conscientiously fulfill his obligations, should be professional in his measures, be in touch with the public, but also act strictly against obvious violations, on the other hand avoid all incidents or even abuses by which the mood of a considerable part of the population is even more against those Police are involved when it is unfortunately already the case. rotating clockwise the short collar section, about 270 degrees by 1) rotating the threaded, knurled August Weiss states further that the 'Riff' lot was produced by DWM late 1927 - early 1928. invaluable source of information about the often obscure markings found on Click here for English translation. Below is continuing description of the second and final conversion. Pictured is a similar aftermarket P08 and police stick-wing acceptance stamped muzzle protector disassembled. Below, a muzzle protector is shown attached to a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n. ad[6]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Cash2.jpg'; 5. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in The is a 9mm, all matching police luger. Please help me with identifying those markings. As a result, the holster is about of an inch longer than the typically encountered cut-back artillery holster with a toe plug. German Police Lugers and their markings 1918-1958 by Edward B. Tinker and Dwight Gruber; 2012 The last numbers on the line indicate the item number of the item that was The variation 1 police marked 4mm sub caliber muzzle protector that can be installed in a single step seems more practical for use with the police cleaning rod. For more detailed information on the 1949 Police manual. Get Guns.com offers and news!! I 1924 titled Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei or Traffic posts of the security police. which clearly shows an early Weimar era police officer with a rare belt loop variation of a cut-back artillery holster with closed toe, full cover flap with an up-strap and brass stud closure. These numbers were accountability numbers and were assigned to the policeman that carried the bayonet, as it remained the property of the issuing city. There is no doubt as to what variation of Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector was used in conjunction with the new 1920s police cleaning rod with brass stopper with, at least, one Weimar era police station as evidenced in Weimar Lugers,1993 page 183, figure 47c by J. (BSP) (Railway Protection Police) as identified by ink stampings located on the inside cover flap being BAHN SCHUTZ and RBD/Rbd (ReichsBahnDirektionen) ESSEN (RUHR). A round buckle for Officers ranks and a box buckle for NCOs ranks utilizing the Freistaat Preuen eagle and are believed to have been introduced in 1921 and were utilized until 1936. Bie der Reubearbeitung des Kap. The lower attachment of the left belt loop has been crudely reinforced with wire, probably while in service. Since this ammo is rare, it is considered to be collectible ammunition. Interestingly, the cut-back artillery to purportedly, police conversions with toe plugs rarely have added twin belt loops. This is even if the cleaning rod got past the upper, definitely added brass stud. I am interested in the following symbols on the bottom side of the magazine, too. German Small Arms Markings From Authentic Sources by J. 127; view 1, Borge Villy Redsted Pertersen, alias 'Lieutenant Larsen' and other cover names, was among those who overcame. The above theory suggests holster cannibalism of German and non-German holsters in the reconfiguration of these Artillery holsters to Police holsters, while not offering an alternate explanation as to the intent or purpose of the current configuration of the subject cut-back, unidentified maker Artillery holster. [2], The earliest dated new manufacture, second pattern regulation police holster is 1929. RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, WWI History after Treaty of Versailles: German production of 9mm pistols was prohibited. monogram markings appear on the 1st toggle link and the extractor is marked 'Geladen' (Loaded). The results cause us collectors no end of confusion, 78 years later. (communications training Thanks, Dwight, for setting the record straight about these blank toggles. Still 1993 on page 174, Fig. Einwohnerwehr had a membership of hundreds of thousands and was (113P) DWM 1920 Police Rework Luger Pistol . Pictured above are two books, Band I or Volume I formed mostly from former servicemen. revolutionaries. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 10 ----------------------------------------------------------. 3 days Left DWM 1914 MILITARY UNIT MARKED LUGER SEMI-AUTO. Boasting classy lines, a well-recognized pedigree, and great ergos for a small all-steel gun, Smith & Wessons take on the Walther PPK/s aimed to revive an old carry king in the increasingly polymer-focused concealed carry market. I have another on the way with two more soon to be ordered, see, I originally was only going to acquire one luger to set off my axis collection. As Dwight's database shows, most of the blank toggle Lugers have "t" and "u" serial number suffixes. Since these cut back LP08 holsters, at least in the Weimar era, had no provision for a spare magazine, the police officer carries a twin magazine pouch on his belt. Im ubrigen hat aber das Bestreben vorgeherrscht, den Iert und Uusbau des Buches mglicht in seiner bisherigen Form zu warhen. These Nazi Police bayonets are frequently described as Dress bayonets, which is a misnomer. Edward Tinker - Co-Author of Police Lugers & Simson Lugers - Veteran Bring Backs Vol 1-4. yes sir it the sear and magazine safety installed. The eagle in front is the type of the Weimar era and was in use from 1919 - 1939. Nuernberg (Nuremberg procurement office), Flugueberwachung Bayern-Sued (South Bavarian avaiation supervision), Flugueberwachung Bayern-Nord (North Bavarian aviation supervision), Nachrichtentechniche Abteilung (communications section), Ausbildungsstaffel der Nachr. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. This example is a very rare 1943 dated military contract piece in 9mm, one of just 300 produced that year.

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